(0 replies, posted in General)

Just installed some code to prevent from spamming. I removed like 3500 users and 35000 messages. Please tell me if you find spam.

Hi, here a proposal for the WAGAC GLIDER ADVANCED Free Known 2017, what do you think of it?

openaero: (0,4) "@A" 2a2- 3% "@B" -```````````rc22+`````````` (0,5) ``+ita```+```` `` "@D" 2t.'4 "@C" `h4 "@E" o1 (-1,5) 2j 1 2rdb+````` (-1,8) m2


and another one here with a different ending, simpler:

(0,4) "@A" 2a2- 3% "@B" -```````````rc22+`````````` (0,5) ``+ita```+```` `` "@D" 2t.'4 "@C" `h4 "@E" o1 b`4'' j> 22 m2


Hi there this is the first idea that came up to me, any ideas, opinions, suggestions, advise?

openaero sequence:
1,1 "@C" `c'4,3if`` (8,14) "@B" of "@A" 4b.3f..' q2- "@E" -h.'- -2 1jo1 "@D" /.',4ta 22


or better!!!
1,1 "@C" `c'4,3if`` (8,14) "@B" of "@A" 4b.3f..' (0,0) "@D" ```+.4ta+```` 1jo1> 2- "@E" -h..- -.'2,22++ m2if


feel free to post your comments, please!


(2 replies, posted in Figure Training)

Hey Lars, hi! Okay, let's do it! But I have a question, with all that angles why there's not a camera showing the wing tip?
Visibility is not very good. Anyway, fig.1 there is a variation in the line, visible. I would do the leveling with a narrower radius on exit (7). Roll looks very good (8). The turn seem to increase a little at the end and too steep (6.5). Fig.4 I have no idea of what it is: 45 up look very good, but there's variations in the 45 down line (6). Can't judge the half top flick, though. Fig.5 the humpty there's a stall in the second part of the half loop, need to be more flown, rounded, more entry speed, and the line down looks just a little bit negative (6). A view on the wing tip would help. Fig.6 sawtooth has a very short line before the roll and the correction after the roll is visible, I see a little bit of variation in the down line (6.5) very good though with the ASK. Fig7 Diamond (never saw in competitions) the only big thing is the last line, very short, angles are really good (7). Fig8 rolling turn goood! Just a small roll rate variation, but good heading and just a little tail shake at the end (7). Fig.9 Stall turn, hmm going up the wings are not perfectly always level, the right wing goes up, the turn is flown and wide pivot point, then the tail shakes on the end of the turn, and line down looks negative, with a variation. Man you can do better!!! here (6). Fig 10 reverse half cuban. I know ASK should be judged on 30° but to me looks very shallow, maybe 15°, good the 5/8 loop but super short the first line, a little bit mushy the half roll, super long second line with a variation of angle (4,5). Fig 11 rolling turn, very small angle the first sector and big the second sector, good the rolling turn rate (5). Fig.12 Stall turn, very good this one, however, the 1/4 of entry loop is very wide, and the up vertical line is much shorter (1/2) than the down line, good pivot point, good angles (6,5). Fig.13 the upper radius is smaller than the lower and there's a bump, not sure about the angle but looks good (8).
Maaaaan, these would be the scores with international judges (very very picky judges), maybe we can ask Hanna if she can contribute wink. Anyway this is what I see. I would work on those variations (easy to remove) and the other little details.


(1 replies, posted in General)

Hey Nelson, welcome to the discussion group, man! I am no expert in power aerobatics, however, a barrell roll is essentially a loop done wit a bit of aileron in. So if you can do a loop with 1G once you're at the top, then you can also do a barrel roll (which again is not a roll). Think of doing a quite narrow loop when instead of releasing to zero gravity at the top, you keep in a 1G. See you around!


(4 replies, posted in Regulations)

Lars wrote:

Or are you allowed to do two of the wing wags on a 45deg down line, and the last one after leveling?

You dive (doesn't really matter if 45 or more degrees) you do 2 wing wag you level and do last wing wag.

Lars wrote:

Does the wing wag need to be done inside the aerobatic box, or is it allowed to be done just before entering the box

Wing wag is part of the program, and you have a Harmony factor as its evaluation/score. As you don't want to do super long travels between figures, the same should be considered with wing wag.

Should you need to start your figure just after entering the box, do your wing wag before it as always, if outside the box won't count. No penalties.

You don't wanna do the wing wag outside the box and then fly to the other side of it before beginning the first figure. No.

And by the way for the altitude penalty it becomes active only when the first figure begins. Same for the last one. If you're level and you get the low beep, thats no penalty. If you get the beep just before the end of the figure, that's 75 points gone.


(4 replies, posted in Regulations)

Hey Lars, Good to see you here!

OKAY... PIK (Chief Judge Philippe KÜCHLER in art "PIK") is probably fad up of me asking him of this, because I bug him so many times, however the rule is that you have to wing wag at least 3 times, and program starts after the last wing wag.

So let say that you have to start the first figure diving down because you need speed, be sure to make a wing wag on a straight line. Same thing if you need to start inverted do the the last wing wag inverted on a horizontal line.

That's what we have in Section 6 Part 2

2.6.6. No Wing Dip at the Beginning or End of a Programme (taken from SC_Section6_Part2_2016_2.pdf) The pilot will be given 35 penalty points for failure to do a wing dip at either the beginning or ending of a programme, or doing it so little that it is not apparent to the grading judges (rule The Boundary Judges stop considering boundary infringements at the first wing dip marking the end of the flight programme or, in case that it is not seen, 10 seconds after the aircraft leaves the performance zone after the end of the last figure.


3.2.3. Competition Flights A competitor must signal the start and finish of each programme by distinctly dipping the wing three times immediately one after another by more than 30 degrees. If the first figure in a programme begins in inverted flight, the first two wing dips may be in upright flight and the last wing dip must be performed in inverted flight. The competitor may change the flight attitude from normal to inverted only by a half roll prior to the last wing dip. A horizontal flight path is required before the start of the first figure and the last wing dip must be in horizontal flight. (see 2.6.6).
Pilots shall land immediately at the end of a competition flight.

Clearly "distinctly dipping" is what you have to do. Some pilots use a weird wing wag as their signature (I think they should be disqualified, ha ha) and some do like 1 wag only at the end, I dont like that, looks like he don't enjoy flying. Myyyyyy opinion, maybe they think it's cool wink

My name is Sasha Marvin, US CFIG and World Champion with team Italy at the WAGAC in 2012, the World Advanced Glider Aerobatic Championship. I moved to the USA last year and teach top level glider aerobatics at the Seminole Lake Gliderport, Clermont FL. My background as an aerobatic pilot/instructor includes training with Sandor Katona (the living legend of Glider Aerobatics) and I had the opportunity to exchange knowledge and assimilate the aerobatic cultures of different countries, Italy, Austria, France, UK, Germany, Poland, Slovakia, Finland, Russia & Check Republic.

Disclaimer: be aware that this briefing is intended for already trained pilots with the required aerobatic skills developed. No one that haven’t been done enough training with a qualified aerobatic instructor and hasn’t developed enough situational awareness, should perform any of the following. Said that, respect the glider limitations you find in the operating manual.

The IAC rules for the Sportsman wants 45° degrees lines to be flown at 30° and since there is no difference in the techniques, let’s get deep into it, as we would do if we were training for the World Championship.

This sequence critique will outline some differences from power aerobatics, too.

Box Entry and penalties
There is no high penalty device used in the US nationals, however the judges know and can understand if you’re too high or too low, so train to manage the energy, avoid long lines and pay attention to your entry and exit speeds.

Wing wag (start your program)
Start diving at minimum speed at 4000ft AGL. Dive deep and do two wing wags on the down line, level and do the last one once level. You will lose some energy so there is no way you can end higher than 4000ft at the top of the loop of the half cuban.

Fig.1 Half Cuban - Starting figure - K19

BOX: begin the figure at 3/4 of the box, so in between the judges position and the end of the box.

TECHNIQUE: The 45° up line has to be a straight line and for the Sportsman has to be performed at 30°. The first segment before the half roll and the second segment after it have to be of same length. Count 1-2 in the first line and 1-2-3 in the second line.
After the half roll, you’ll need to get automated with pushing the stick forward enough, this because you want to fly on the same line you were traveling before the half roll. Stop wings level with horizon to keep the heading on same direction.
If judges see different length of the two segments or they see a variation of the heading from the initial segment, that will be no good for the scoring.
You’ll need enough speed to do a smooth 5/8th of the loop. Watch out because there has to be a line after the half roll. If you begin the loop immediately with no line, you might get a Hard Zero (HZ). The half roll has to be stopped with wing level, with less barrel as possible, and no corrections after it.

ERRORS: different angle on the second line after the roll, not rounded circle of the 5/8 loop, desaxe after the half roll, so ending figure with different direction from how it was started.

Fig.2 Canopy up Humpty Bump K15

BOX: begin the figure at the 1/2 of the box

TECHNIQUE: The vertical lines has to be parallel, straight and no angle pitch or roll variations during the travel. The top half loop has to be narrow and flown, wing level to horizon, but you need enough speed to not stall on top. Draw a nice circle half loop. So keep slightly positive on the up line and slightly negative on the down line. Same entry as exit speed. Same G sensation to go up, same G to exit, so you'll be sure that the two quarters of loop will be of the same radius.

ERRORS: Most common errors: super narrow half loop, slow speed before half loop and stall, different angles in the up and down lines, corrections in the lines.

Fig.3 180° aerobatic turn K4

BOX: begin after the humpty and give normal separation in between the figures.

TECHNIQUE: Set a bank that's 60° (better more than less) do it hard! And keep that angle for the whole turn. Any variation will be -1 point. Manage speed with rudders. Do not vary the bank. Level hard like in a fighter.

ERRORS: Most common errors: variation of bank, variation of speed, pitch, slow speed exit.

Fig. 4 Humpty Bump K13

BOX: begin on half of the box, if you’re not there wait! Do not begin right after the turn.

TECHNIQUE: Lines must be parallel, vertical up must be 90° up and vertical down 90° down. Fly the top half roll, avoid stall so use pilot instinct to begin the half roll. Do not do variations in the lines, because they will deduct 1/2 or 1 point from the scores. Same entry same exit speed.

ERRORS: Most common errors: super narrow top half loop, stall due to low speed at top, and different angles in the up and down lines.

Note — Like Fig. 1 (the half cuban) Fig. 5 and Fig. 6 are those with more K factor (difficulty). Put special effort and attention in these 2 figures here for best scoring!!!

Fig. 5 the 45 up Diagonal Humpty K18

BOX: fly a short line after Fig. 4 and fly a longer line after the end of this figure. You want the sequence that comes after Fig. 6 to actually fit in the box.

TECHNIQUE: The first part is exactly as the half cuban eight (fig.1) so review above and mark the 45° (30° Sportsman) line down after the half loop. Look outside on the wing tip to know where you are. Once is time to mark the 45° (30° Sportsman) down line slow down the roll rate and be precise. Keep the line do not do variations. 10kmh before the exit speed pull quite hard and release smoothly to level.

ERRORS: Most common errors: different length of the line elements before and after the half roll, different heading after the half roll, different angle after half roll, diagonal line down flown at different angle, variations on diagonal down line, stall at the top of the figure.

Fig. 6 Sawtooth K21

BOX: begin this figure quite after the judges, or at the 3/4 of the box.

TECHNIQUE: This figure looks simple but hides a lot of potential traps. It is similar to the beginning of the half cuban eight, but what changes here is timing. Because it looks simple even a very minimal error here becomes a big error. To get the two lines before and after the half roll of the same length you need to work on timing. And naturally push up the nose a little bit after the half roll. Speed is an important factor. You don't need a lot of speed but you want to draw a long line and impress the judges, right? So start at your usual speed, mark the 45° up (30° Sportsman), count shorter on the first line, do the half roll, and count longer on the second line. As soon as you feel the buffeting do the 3/8 of the top loop. It's a very narrow loop, but it has to be flown and avoid the stall, that will be very visible, as your deductions. Mark the vertical, do not do any variation when established the line down. Always look the reference on the tip wing, slow down the loop ratio before to mark the vertical for better style and precision. Then bring your gaze on a point down on the ground, and keep it. The glider want's to pitch up with speed, so keep it on that line. Focus the airspeed indicator, 20 kmh (10kts) before the exit speed pull hard enough then release before exit.

ERRORS: Most common errors: second line after the half roll on a different angle, wing not level with horizon, so big desaxe (different direction) from the initial line. Stall on the top. Variation in the last part of the vertical down. (Banana!!!)

Fig. 7 Roll K14

BOX: the roll should be at the 1/2 of the box, right in front of the judges

TECHNIQUE: Do not change roll ratio, especially in the second part. Use proper push forward with slow ratio roll gliders, especially just at the inverted position and before the second knife to keep heading.

ERRORS: noticeable altitude drop in the second part of the roll, exit direction way off the initial direction.

Fig. 8 Cloverleaf K17

BOX: normal after the roll, do the quarter roll up to exit in the direction where you have more space.

TECHNIQUE: pull up as in a loop, look outside (left) in the direction of the roll, and at 45° begin to add stick aileron slowly, so no need of rudder for correction, once reached 90° (or at 1/4 roll) stop adding aileron - check wing level with horizon - and keep flying.

ERRORS: quarter up ends before or after so exit direction is off the 90° axis of what it was supposed to be.

Fig. 9 Stall Turn (Hammerhead)

BOX: fly into the wind!

TECHNIQUE: Usually in the competition we don't wanna see the bank preparation, so you will have to train adding a little bit of aileron in the pull, instead of doing it separately because it is visible (as many instructors teach in the beginning, me included). You will fly in front of the judges. For that reason the wings must go up really levelled horizontally. The top turn must be executed on the same flight plan of the vertical up plane. Avoid variations during the vertical lines. Little positive up, little negative down. If the wing tip reference is well set on your glider you should have it perfectly aligned at 90° on both up and down travels. The stall turn has always to be flown into the wind, so you have to know how to do it on both sides. There’s a lot more details to know about stall turns. Come train.

ERRORS: up and down lines flown with different angles and variations, top pivot turn not done on same vertical flight plan, late top turn, anticipated top turn, “banana” on exit.

WARNING: If you notice that you're too low for some reason, abort! Don't do it if you don’t have plenty of altitude. Try save energy on the top figures and try not using too fast speeds.

Program END - Wing Wag! If you do all good as described above expect the GOLD medal!

BOX & WIND MANAGEMENT: depending on wind direction you will have to adjust your separations between figures in order to be properly centered and on position.

GROUND PREPARATION: Always try your flight at least three times in your mind on the ground and try to prevent any possible cross wind effects to plan your flight in the box!

This was a typical pre-briefing sequence critique, discussing on main key factors and details. As done in the training season in preparation of the world championship. This is part of how in 2012 we won the WAGAC. You will definitely find a benefit applying this training standards.

Well, if you read the whole thing, leave a comment!

I teach Unusual Attitudes, Spins and aerobatics for new and experienced pilots, at Seminole Lake Gliderport, Clermont, FL

Here we go, let's discuss about critical points of this program and where to focus the attention!


Hi everybody, I would like to come up with a comprehensive list of all the Glider Aerobatic Training places in the US and know who can bring a student/pilot to the WAGAC or WGAC level:

I know there is Jason Stevens at Estrella in Arizona (http://www.azsoaring.com/training/),

Eric Lentz Gauthier at Williams in north California (http://www.williamssoaring.com/fleet/mdm1-fox.html) and

Sasha Marvin -me- at the Seminole Lake Gliderport in Florida (http://www.sashamarvin.com).

Please feel free to add your training facility in this thread. We are all a great family. Glider aerobatics is family.


(0 replies, posted in Figure Training)

Download the lesson for the Roll in the Glider Basic Aerobatics training:


Here you find the initial training lesson for the Stall turn or Hammerhead in Basic Glider Aerobatic:

http://www.sashamarvin.com/pdf/STALL%20 … lesson.pdf

And watch this video too: https://youtu.be/YttiSzbKIf8


(0 replies, posted in Figure Training)

Here you can find the LOOP lesson for Basic Aerobatic Glider training: